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**Fabrice** · 16th November 2021, 11:29

Gazelle / Bell 206 / Alouette II Purchase and Operating Costs

Does anyone have an idea of the purchase and operating costs for a standard, first-hand, civvie Gazelle in the 70's?

I'm also looking for some comparisons with other types like the Bell 206 or the Alouette II.

Thanks for your help gents!

**Savoia** · 17th November 2021, 11:13

SA342L CN-ACW air-to-air NFI

Syriac SA342L as seen in November 2021

SA342M F-MGET (cn.4225) during a live fire exercise NFI (Photo by Patrick Gillis)

ZU-RNV departure from Wonderboom

New flight instrument array installed in a South African Gazelle
in November 2021 (Video courtesy of Avia supporter 'DG')

**Savoia** · 18th November 2021, 11:47

SA341B ZB673 (WA1966) as seen at RNAS Culdrose on 12th July 2006 (Photo by Gert Jan Mentink)

SA341C G-BZDV (WA1150) as seen at Newtownards Airfield on 16th June 2008 (Photo by Gavin)

Mi-35P's with SA342L's over Cyprus in November 2021 (Photo by Shaun Psaila)

SA341B XZ334 (WA1673) possibly at Middle Wallop NFI

**Savoia** · 19th November 2021, 11:07

SA341G HB-XIL (WA1039) as seen at Grenchen Airport in Switzerland on 25th April 1980

Presenting this offering of 'XIL' in response to Zis' recent posting of this craft.

SA341B XX412 (WA1362) as seen at Gilze Kamp Prinsenbosch in the Netherlands on 3rd October 1985
(Photo by Jonathan Verschuuren)

Royal Marines Gazelle attached to 3CBAS and seen above during Exercise 'Highland Reprise' 85.

SA341B ZB671 (WA1958) as seen at Lee-on-Solent on 18th November 2021 (Photo by Graham Tiller)

**Savoia** · 20th November 2021, 09:48

SA341B XZ329 (WA1648) as seen at Middle Wallop in 1994 (Photo by Steve Ryle)

Attached to 670 Squadron.

The Sharks as seen at RNAS Culdrose in July 1976

**Savoia** · 22nd November 2021, 11:17

SA341F2 ZU-RNV (cn.1608) as seen at Wonderboom Airport on 19th November 2021

SA341D ZB625 (WA1905) as seen at Deptford Down on 1st March 2010 (Photo by Chris Wood)

Gazelles as seen at Dax on 18th November 2021 (Photo by Kell)

SA342J N624EL (cn.1094) as seen departing
Issy-les-Moulineaux recently

Digital Yugo Gaz

**Zishelix** · 23rd November 2021, 10:48

Irish Air Corps SA342L 241 (cn 1854) as seen at Baldonnel in February 2003 (Photo: Michael Kelly)

**Savoia** · 23rd November 2021, 11:26

SA342L1 12905 (cn.115) as seen in Serbia NFI (Photo by Igor Salinger)

As seen with Mi-35 shadow.

SA341D XW858 (WA1089) as seen at Middle Wallop on 8th May 1992 (Photo by Ken Videan)

Now flying as G-ONNE.

Gazelles as seen in the Excel hangar
on 20th November 2021

Aircraft seen include G-CBKD, G-KEMD plus two aircraft being prepared for the Ghana Police.

**Savoia** · 24th November 2021, 10:43

SA341B G-ZZEL (WA1152) as seen at Ha'penny Green in November 2021 (Photo by Paul Bunch)

SA342M F-MGCI (cn.4175) as seen at Aérodrome de Millau-Larzac on 17th October 2021 (Photo by Marco Papa)

**AndyM** · 24th November 2021, 18:58

The Loss of XW850 and XW851 Control Issues

The loss of XW850 has been something that has always occupied my mind. At the time it crashed I was an apprentice aircraft technician at Arborfield. I believe the fatality referred to in a previous post was a R.E.M.E trainee on an air experience flight. Somewhere there must be a coroners report. There was certainly an accident report raised, which I saw, however I have been unable to locate a copy.

Three years later in 1976 I was working at 70(AC) Workshops Middle Wallop. XW851 (sister ship to XW850) was a having major inspection and modification program. I was carrying out inspection work which involved moving the flying controls. During this inspection I became aware of a clunking noise emanating from the main rotor swashplate. The swashplate had excessive wear the details of which are not relevant to the rest of this story.

However, while moving the controls the cyclic locked solid and could not be moved aft, this was without hydraulic pressure.
I was startled by this and relaxed the pressure on the cyclic. The restriction disappeared and initially I couldn't recreate it.
I then attempted to recreate the movement I had made with the cyclic. In effect this was full right cyclic, full forward, left to the centreline of the stick and then full aft.

The stick jammed solid and was immoveable aft. I called for help as I did not want to let go. Inspection revealed that the cause of the stick jam was the cyclic friction discs. An urgent signal that I saw was sent to all army aviation units to carry out immediate inspections. One of the officers who had been involved in the original accident investigation on XW850 (Major Southon?) came to see the aircraft, he felt that what we had found corresponded to the report submitted by the pilot of XW850. By then XW850 was scrapped therefore no further investigation was possible.

It is not easy to describe the actual failure, but I will try. Firstly, the aircraft has to have a cyclic friction fitted to the stick (non S.A.S), the amount of cyclic friction applied had an effect as possibly did the amount of friction on the cockpit floor surface.
As the stick was moved from fully forward to fully aft, the lowest disc contacted the floor and distorted slightly. Either the hole in the disc was too large or the next disc up had an undersized external diameter. The effect was that the edge of the second disc caught on the distorted lip of the lower disc resulting in the controls becoming locked.

Final Thoughts

No civil airworthiness directive was ever issued, although civil and military aircraft all came off the same production line. Could this fault be still lying dormant waiting for the right "swiss cheese" conditions to arrive? Yes, as only the British military seem to have been notified. Also, spare parts replacements over the years could reintroduce the problem.

How Can You Easily Check for the Condition?

Loosen the friction and gradually move the stick forward. Look down at the cyclic friction discs at the rear of the stick. If you have a half moon/smiley face gap between the lower disc and the next up which you could poke something through, then the potential for a control jam is there.

Long time ago now, it has always bothered me. I have often wondered if the pilot of XW850 was ever advised of this finding. Might have made him feel a little better.

**Helipixman** · 24th November 2021, 20:38

Changes of Ownership G-CBKD & G-KEMD

A couple of changes in the past few days. One of them very exciting for me !

G-CBKD has been sold by Flying Scout Ltd (Permit expired 15.4.19) to Simon James Leonard Fish, 23.11.21, in the Dunmow, Essex area. It currently has a declaration of no flight. Hopefully the new owner will put her back in the air soon.

G-KEMD sold by Excel Charter Ltd to Calport Ltd, 22.11.21 and fantastic they are a Perth, Scotland company. After doing a quick search it could be for either Simon Howie or Ross Howie (Butchers trade)

**Savoia** · 25th November 2021, 11:16

SA342J(S) G-TOPZ (cn.1473) as seen at Coventry Baginton on 15th July 2008 (Photo by Karl Drage)

SA432MV F-MGCC (cn.4160) as seen at Aérodrome Sainte-Léocadie in November 2021

SA342M as seen at Rouvres-En-Woëvre in November 2021

**Savoia** · 25th November 2021, 11:47

Dear Andy

A warm welcome to Aviafora, we are so glad to have you with us!

Some years back we had a member 'Warty' who also shared some memories involving XW850 and which you can read below.

I also read your comments on 'Alouettes & Lamas', much appreciated.

Regards

Savoia

Originally posted by Warty View Post

XW850 (c/n 1018) which was delivered on the 2nd May 1973 was written off on the 31st of the same month. The cause of the accident was attributed to a jack-stall, which causes the controls to revert from servo to manual, and the cyclic stick to kick to the left. Tricky enough to deal with at the best of times, in this instance it happened at low level and at maximum weight. The aircraft crashed at Fordingbridge, Hampshire and was written off as being damaged beyond repair.

XW851, which was delivered on the 19th of June 1973, looks like it was the replacement for the written-off XW850. XW853 was probably a late entry to the IFTU because it wasn't delivered until the 28th of June 1973.

XB, could you kindly share your thoughts on Andy's comments about the Gazelle's cyclic friction as per his remarks in post #5290 above.

**Zishelix** · 25th November 2021, 15:32

Welcome to Aviafora, Andy!

Many thanks for your valuable info regarding XW850 & 851's control issues.

I wonder if you could help explain the purpose of the white-black stripes some UK Gazelles had under the Plexiglas windshield back in 1970's.

**AndyM** · 26th November 2021, 00:13

Hi Zishelix

In a previous post someone commented on an aircraft having aerials in a non standard position on the tailboom for the period.
Most equipment fits were trialled on Demonstration and Trials Squadrons aircraft before issue to service. There might be a long delay between trials and fleet installation. Some modifications never making it to squadrons in the field.

As to the stripes, I never saw them. I might hazard a guess that as they are directly below the pedals it might be some form of dirt catcher to keep mud from falling into the canopy when operating in the field. Maybe a D&T squadron aircraft. That is a guess!!! I wonder if there any other images as I suspect that is two photos of the same aircraft. Also was it to both sides?

**AndyM** · 26th November 2021, 00:21

Originally posted by Savoia View Post

Dear Andy

A warm welcome to Aviafora, we are so glad to have you with us!

Regards

Savoia

Many thanks Savoia.

Andy

**Savoia** · 26th November 2021, 11:45

SA341G N6957 (cn.1060) as seen at Richards Field in Florida on 22nd August 1976 (Photo by Larry Johnson)

SA341D G-ONNE (WA1089) as seen at Lee-on-Solent on 25th November 2021 (Photos by Phillip Wilmshurst)

**AndyM** · 26th November 2021, 12:13

Originally posted by Zishelix

That last photo does seem to show something on the outside.

I wonder if there was an issue with light entering the cockpit from below in certain conditions at night (such as landing on a lit helipad) and whether the intention was to reduce glare? It does look as if it's two attempts to solve the same problem.

Yet another guess.

**AndyM** · 26th November 2021, 12:59

SA341B XW900 (WA1195) on the pan at Soest, North Rhine-Westphalia in Germany in 1975

And seen post accident in 1976

XW900 crashed in Soest on 25th May 1976 during NVG trials.

**md600driver** · 27th November 2021, 09:54

Originally posted by xbdt View Post

or maybe aluminium foil to enhance the antenna ground plane? just guessing

I was led to believe that it was for shielding the strobe when night flying and near the ground.

Andy M = Mike's instructor ????

**Savoia** · 27th November 2021, 10:45

Gazelle Cyclic Control Jamming

We are blessed with some wonderful members on Shrieking Gazelles, indeed an entire host of 'Gaz experts' and for whose thoughts and opinions we are very grateful.

I am reproducing here the discussion posted earlier this week on the potential for 'cyclic jamming' as raised by our newest member 'Andy M' and also the response from one of our founding members .. XB.

Originally posted by AndyM

In 1976 I was working at the 70(AC) workshops at Middle Wallop. XW851 (sister ship to XW850) was a having major inspection and modification program. I was carrying out inspection work which involved moving the flying controls. During this inspection I became aware of a clunking noise emanating from the main rotor swashplate. The swashplate had excessive wear the details of which are not relevant to the rest of this story.

However, while moving the controls the cyclic locked solid and could not be moved aft, this was without hydraulic pressure.
I was startled by this and relaxed the pressure on the cyclic. The restriction disappeared and initially I couldn't recreate it.
I then attempted to recreate the movement I had made with the cyclic. In effect this was full right cyclic, full forward, left to the centreline of the stick and then full aft.

The stick jammed solid and was immoveable aft. I called for help as I did not want to let go. Inspection revealed that the cause of the stick jam was the cyclic friction discs. An urgent signal that I saw was sent to all army aviation units to carry out immediate inspections. One of the officers who had been involved in the original accident investigation on XW850 (Major Southon?) came to see the aircraft, he felt that what we had found corresponded to the report submitted by the pilot of XW850. By then XW850 was scrapped therefore no further investigation was possible.

It is not easy to describe the actual failure, but I will try. Firstly, the aircraft has to have a cyclic friction fitted to the stick (non S.A.S), the amount of cyclic friction applied had an effect as possibly did the amount of friction on the cockpit floor surface.
As the stick was moved from fully forward to fully aft, the lowest disc contacted the floor and distorted slightly. Either the hole in the disc was too large or the next disc up had an undersized external diameter. The effect was that the edge of the second disc caught on the distorted lip of the lower disc resulting in the controls becoming locked.

No civil airworthiness directive was ever issued, although civil and military aircraft all came off the same production line. Could this fault be still lying dormant waiting for the right "swiss cheese" conditions to arrive? Yes, as only the British military seem to have been notified. Also, spare parts replacements over the years could reintroduce the problem.

It is possible to check for this condition by loosening the friction and gradually moving the stick forward. Look down at the cyclic friction discs at the rear of the stick. If you have a half moon/smiley face gap between the lower disc and the next up which you could poke something through, then the potential for a control jam is there.

Reply posted by XB

Regarding the cyclic control, I never heard of a possible problem there but of course everything is possible.

Here is an expanded view of the pilot's cyclic friction assembly where the friction is obtained by compressing a series of spring washers (170). These do not move, just compress. The lower part (175) lets call it a cup consists of an upper (A) part and a lower (B) part. Between these two there is another cup serving as dust cap. The neck of part A and part B are glued together in the middle with the cup loose in between. The dust cap is loose at all times.

Friction is applied when turning (150) clockwise, friction occurs between the stick and the floor on ball joint bolted onto the floor (210).

My interpretation of a possible jam there would be that A and B became loose from each other and that part B gets stuck under the side of part A instead of remaining a one piece component.

Part 110 and 120 is the limiter for the adjusting knob (150) it should be set just to release all cyclic friction, not more.

If the limiter is loose, the pilot could in fact disassemble the whole friction assembly and also create a possible jam problem there.

The co-pilot cyclic stick is also important, always check that the safety ring and clip is properly installed, check also the alignment/secure of the carpet. I had some people sliding the carpet around with their feet, this can also give some strange cyclic inputs :-)

**Savoia** · 27th November 2021, 11:30

SA341B ZB671 (WA1958) as seen at SPTA on 25th November 2021 (Photo by Paul)

SA341B G-BZYD (WA1648) former XZ329 as seen at Headcorn in early September 2021 (Photo by Callum)

SA341G N341GG (cn.1181) as seen at Bex Aérodrome in Switzerland in November 2021 (Photo by Michele Ceresa)

SA342M F-MBPD (cn.4067) as seen at Hafr Al-Batin in Saudi Arabia in March 1991 (Photo by T. Laurent)

**Savoia** · 29th November 2021, 11:59

Cypriot SA342L live fire exercise NFI

Royal Marines

SA341B XX412 (WA1362) as seen at RNAS Yeovilton on 20th September 2003

SA341B XZ292 (WA1502) as seen at Oxford Kidlington in 1991 (Photo by Steve Ryle)

SA341F2 N341RD (cn.1501) as seen at Witham Field in Florida on 13th November 2021

SA342M sim flight

**Savoia** · 29th November 2021, 12:06

Gaz Lower Windshield Markings

Zishelix wrote:

I wonder if you could help explain the purpose of the markings some UK Gazelles had in the lower portion of the Plexiglas windshield back in 1970's?

XB replied:

This could be aluminium foil to enhance the antenna ground plane? Just guessing.

Avia member Reggie W. emailed the following message over the weekend:

You are correct, adhesive aluminium foil was used on the outside of the canopy to enhance the antenna ground plane. The early British Army Gazelles all had foil on each side of the canopy, approx 9’’ x12’’ in a rectangular shape, (different from the ground plane shown on the ‘trial’ A/C in the photograph). Three strips of aluminium tape with a one inch fold over to maintain foil to foil contact with each strip/. Each joint was sealed with black adhesive tape; hence the stripe effect.

When applying the aluminium foil, it was very difficult not to crease or ripple the foil because of the contour of the Plexiglas; a short round wooden pencil, a piece of cloth and a lot of patience was the answer.

Reggie W.

**Zishelix** · 29th November 2021, 14:30

AH.1 performing a sky ballet

**gazelleflyer1705** · 29th November 2021, 20:54

Good Evening everyone,

I hope you are all well!

Slightly abnormal request and I'm sure a contradictory one too amongst the Gazelle enthusiast in this chat, however, I'm wondering whether anyone knows whether it's possible to replace the Gazelle's front classic bulb Landing/Searchlight for a bright LED one?
If so, does anyone know where this can be done or where I can get one?

Kindly
Liam Barnes

**md600driver** · 29th November 2021, 21:25

Originally posted by gazelleflyer1705 View Post

Good Evening everyone,

I hope you are all well!

Slightly abnormal request and I'm sure a contradictory one too amongst the Gazelle enthusiast in this chat, however, I'm wondering whether anyone knows whether it's possible to replace the Gazelle's front classic bulb Landing/Searchlight for a bright LED one?
If so, does anyone know where this can be done or where I can get one?

Kindly
Liam Barnes

Liam, your Gazelle has a maintenance schedule that follows the military programme. Firstly you would need to speak to Bruce and see if it’s allowed on an ex-mil cab.

The LED lights are very expensive circa £150-200. You can get a Gazelle one for £20 plus postage.

Steve

**Savoia** · 30th November 2021, 11:33

SA342 Phantom Gaz as seen near St. Petersburg in November 2021

SA341B XX378 (WA1258) as seen at RAF Fairford on 19th July 1997 (Photo by Richard Flagg)

SA341C XW871 (WA1148) as seen at Biggin Hill in 1983 (Photo by Jon Pumpkin)

Main rotor tracking flight from Stapleford in November 2021

Gaz modelling decal locator

**md600driver** · 30th November 2021, 17:51

Originally posted by Savoia View Post

Yes, we are all in varying degrees of wellness Liamo

grazie!

Notwithstanding Stefano's comments below and whether there are regulatory issues to take into account (there always are), I am certain it would be possible to retrofit the Gaz landing lamp with an LED array. As to whether someone has done so already, I am unaware, but hopefully we will find out.

I am sure Avia member 'XB' could make one up for you if required.

You can just buy them from the aviation LED lamp manufactures, they just fit in.

**Zishelix** · 1st December 2021, 08:07

SA341H YU-HCS s/n 066 as seen in Serbia NFI

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