Thanks for info, Jos!
Another one to South Africa I guess http://www.aviafora.com/forums/forum...0878#post10878
Another one to South Africa I guess http://www.aviafora.com/forums/forum...0878#post10878
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Unidentified Film Gazelle
Is anyone able to help identify a 'stretched' Gazelle used for filming 'The Fourth War' movie in 1990?
See 1:22 & 1:33 in the trailerComment
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#4562.1Editing a commentI investigate a little bit - Since the movie was filmed at locations in Canada (Alberta) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0099606...?ref_=tt_dt_dt and one of 'stretched' C-regd Gazelles there at the time was Northland Helicopters Alberta's C-GXTW, makes me to believe it was c/n 1410! I wonder if the present N901B owner can confirm this my assumption
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SA341G HA-LFD (cn.1145) as seen at Bourne Park on 19th March 2009 (Photo by Bill Teasdale)
SA341B ZB691 (WA2006) as seen at SPTA in July 2020 (Photo by Philip Stevens)
Flying as 'Army Air 741'.
SA341D XZ935 (WA1742) as seen at RAF Cosford in 2005Comment
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G-VOIP Change of Ownership
G-VOIP has had another change of ownership, sold to C3 Property Consulting Llp at Elwick on 23.9.20
Allan Cook has also previously owned G-CBBV, G-ZELE. Think he may have also used/owned one of the YU- Gazelles ?
Interesting to note the photo of G-VOIP at Brentwood (see photo below) was posted on the day of the change !
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Grazie Elipix. Does this mean that G-ONNE is now the only Essex-based Gaz aside from whatever is on the ramp at MW? -
Probably is the only one in Essex, Steeple Bumpstead is only just inside Essex, strange aswell the owners address has a Cambridge Post code ! There is a hangar and helipad visible on google maps.
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Gazelle Cancelled from Russian Register
RA-05706, SA341B Gazelle AH1, 1802 (ex G-CHBR); cancelled between 21-Jul-2020 and 24-Sep-2020
Fate unknown, but she was pictured at Stapleford on 01-Aug-2020 (#4500 on this forum as per below).
SA341G RA-05706 (WA1802) as seen at Stapleford on 1st August 2020Comment
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Gazelle helicopter simulator jury-rigged into a custom Frasca 145H nose unit at the Maze Long Kesh hangar in Lisburn.
By the way, anyone able to confirm my assumption regarding ID of the machine used for filming 'The 4th War' movie http://www.aviafora.com/forums/forum...2868#post12868 ?Comment
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Zis, was 1410 the only stretched Gaz on the Canadian register or were there others? -
Interestingly, the seat in the Gazelle simulator has two serials on it, XW860 and XZ334! -
'𝗜𝗻𝘁𝗲𝗿𝗲𝘀𝘁𝗶𝗻𝗴𝗹𝘆, 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝘀𝗲𝗮𝘁 𝗶𝗻 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗚𝗮𝘇𝗲𝗹𝗹𝗲 𝘀𝗶𝗺𝘂𝗹𝗮𝘁𝗼𝗿 𝗵𝗮𝘀 𝘁𝘄𝗼 𝘀𝗲𝗿𝗶𝗮𝗹𝘀 𝗼𝗻 𝗶𝘁, 𝗫𝗪𝟴𝟲𝟬 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝗫𝗭𝟯𝟯𝟰!'
Yes, this allows it to be used by both Army and Navy pilots. 😆
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SAF SA342L 12920 (Photo by Zarko Skoko)
SA341B G-KEMH (WA1284) as seen at Stapleford on 26th September 2020 (Photo by David Stevens)
SA342J YU-HEV (cn.1393) as seen at Stapleford on 26th September 2020 (Photo by David Stevens)
Do you think HEV's rear door is dented?Comment
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SA342L YU-HEC (cn.1830) as seen in Serbia in 2020
SA341B XZ347 (WA1713) as seen at Boscombe Down in June 1992 (Photo by Neil Brant)
SA341H 12719 (cn.098) as seen in Brasina, Serbia on 25th September 2020
Providing support in the aftermath of the Serbian Air Force MiG-21 crash which occurred earlier the same day.
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Sleek looking N901B seen at Breighton recently (Photo: Mike Burdett)
Well polished machine, this must be the pilot
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SA341F 1579/CWD and SA342M 3904/AWA as part of the ALAT & Helicopters Museum at Dax exhibit in July 15th, 2020 (Photo: Alan Pardoe)
Serbia to Arm SA342's
The Serbian MoD have announced their intention to arm their SA342L HO-45 fleet with a machine guns and non-guided air-to-surface rockets. The equipment would be probably domestic produced machine gun pods GH-78 with M-87/12,7mm and L80-07/80mm rocket launchers. Serbian Army having 44 Gazelles of which about 15 are in active duty.
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SA342L 241 (cn.1854) as seen at Casement Baldonnel in July 1993
SA341B XX453 (WA1454) as seen at SPTA on 31st March 2016 (Photo by Liam Daniels)
Chinese Gazelle 94305Comment
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Serial Confusion!
Here we go again with Serial numbers... Air Britian has just posted out the September News 2020 and it has a run down for all the French Sa341s and Sa342s and guess what ! this is what they have, for example the Crabtree Gazelle HA-HSG is quoted as Coded: GJH/3615 with a manufacturers serial number of 1615.
So they have SA342s coded begining with 3458 etc as msn 1458 etc
any coded from 4008 etc as msn 2008 etc
I know people on here differ regarding this situation, maybe it needs clarification direct from Airbus ? If I can find the correct person to email, I will do so.
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Gazelle construction numbers began at 1000 and climbed progressively through to the 2300 serials. This represents the 'actual' production count.
However, at some point l'armée de Terre decided to bump up their serials into the '3 & 4' sequence (perhaps with the introduction of the 342) and the aviation authorities seem to recognise these serials and IIRC Stefano even confirmed that EASA also recognises the 3 & 4 serials.
So, from the 'actual' production count, the numbers are in the one and two thousands, but for administrative purposes the French 342's make the jump into the three and four thousands.
Just to make things clearer, there are a handful of 342's (non-French military) which are in the five thousands!
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Originally posted by Helipixman View Post
I have a construction log book showing that s/n 3615 was built on 12th November 1980.
S/n 1614 was built in 1977 (if it was 1615 it should have been built 1977).
I also have a certificate of conformity issued by Aérospatiale showing 3615 as the s/n.
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My post was pointing out what Air Britain were quoting, I fully understand what you are saying MD600 and know you have the proof on your Gazelle. So many organisations still quoting them as in a strict order from 1001 onwards ?? I also agree with you re the dates and you are correct, just wish these organisations like Air Britain who are supposed to be great historians can stop getting it so wrong ? I am going to contact them for the reason behind using that listing.
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RA-05706 Returned to UK Register
RA-05706 noted at Stapleford recently has just been restored to the UK register as G-CHBR dated 29.9.20
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Here's a scan of how Air Britain list the SA342s of ALAT
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SA341G G-IZEL (WA1098) as seen at Redhill in 1995 (Photo by Alan Meloy)
Seeing as Jos and Elipix have recently mentioned RA-05706 .. here is an engine start from 2017:
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SA341G(S) G-OGAZ (cn.1274) as seen at Redhill in 1995 (Photo by Alan Meloy)Comment
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SA342MV's F-MGCG and F-MGAG at Aérodrome de Grenoble-Le Versoud in October 2020 (Photo by Pieter Bastiaans)
Engaged in Exercise Baccarat 2020
SA342M F-MGEB as seen in Pau, Rhone-Alpes (Photo by Patrick Gillis)
SA342M F-MGEK as seen at L'Aéroport de Châteauroux-Centre on 4th October 2020 (Photo by Lucas Slow)
Check out the latest parts for sale .. on Gaz Parts.
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SA342J YU-HES (cn.1057) as seen at Sywell (date unconfirmed)
SA341B G-KEMH (WA1284) as seen at Redhill on 5th October 2020
G-KEMH makes a return to Redhill.
Exercise 'Cooperation 2020' in Serbia
Gazelle live fire from 1:44
SA341G YU-HHS start and depart
WA1067 (formerly G-BAGL) start and depart from Lisičji Jarak Airport (located 13 km north of Belgrade in Serbia) on 5th October 2020.Comment
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Originally posted by Helipixman View Post
What an intriguing discussion.
As is generally known, the French military (in many cases) allocate military serials equal to c/n's. Therefore it seems logical that the SA342M Gazelles have c/ns in the 3000- and 4000-series.
However, all of those c/ns fit nicely into the 1000- and 2000-series, without any overlapping. Therefore I think that the c/ns for the French military SA342M Gazelles originally were in the 1000- and 2000-series.
I cannot see why Sud Aviation would increase the c/ns for French military Gazelles by 2000 (and leaving the civil ones unchanged), instead of e.g. starting a completely new series. So, I tend to agree with Enrico who stated 'from the 'actual' production count, the numbers are in the one and two thousands, but for administrative purposes the French 342's make the jump into the three and four thousands.'
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Originally posted by Rotorspot View Post
If an aircraft has a data plate which shows a serial number of 3615 (Aérospatiale plate not French mil) and a build certificate and certificate of conformity showing serial no. 3615, then surely that aircraft is serial no. 3615.
The manufacturer says so and the receipt for payment the log books says so!
Other people have lists they have made up from other records (what records?) that says differently. Which do you believe, these private records or the manufacturer's clearly identified serial no?
Is this a fraudulent sale by the French government or what!!!
Last edited by md600driver; 6th October 2020, 22:05.Comment
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Sorry, I did not want to upset anyone.
I do believe the numbers on the data plates and in the documentation, but it strikes me that the 3 and 4 series perfectly fit into the 1 and 2 series.
I just try to figure out and understand why the numbers for the French military SA342M were increased at some point in time, either on the production line or later. -
Indeed, no need for anyone to spend a bad night because of that c/ns subject, but it is quite intriguing, I have to say.
The French army c/ns in the 3000 or 4000 series are official ones: these are the numbers on the construction plates (stamped by the manufacturer) or on the helicopter official documents like the Aircraft Flight Manual or the airworthiness certificate. But what is also true is that these numbers find their position in the Gazelle production sequence between 'normal' c/ns: for example, c/n 1567 as such does not exist, but SA 342M c/n 3567 finds its place between SA 341G 1566 and SA 342L 1568.
The first ALAT SA 342M was in fact cn.1732 (delivered in late 1977) the before-last machine of the initial order for 170 SA 341Fs. This one retained its « original » c/n. Then a first order for 128 SA 342Ms was signed by the ALAT, the first one (3458) being delivered in early 1980.
What is weird is that this 3458 should be well before 1732… How can it be? To be honest, I have no proof... my assumption is that when the ALAT ordered its SA 342Ms (and later on the SA 342L1s), Aerospatiale gave them increased c/ns to mark the difference from the others (civilian or exported) SA 342s and before being effectively built these French Army Gazelles already had their future c/n reserved. So these 3000 and 4000 series c/ns were probably allocated to the copters when the contracts were signed, well before they were effectively built. This could be a reason why the first « genuine » 342Ms had c/ns which should fit before the last 341Fs in the production roll, even if they were produced on a later date.
But as far as I know, no SA 341F has been eventually upgraded as a 342M with the ALAT. From the beginning, the SA 342Ms were brand new helicopters.
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WA341C #1078 XW856/CU41 at the Helicopter Championship on Broadlands in May 22nd, 1983 (Photo: Graham Tiller)
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SA341G N505HA (cn.1022) Toussus-le-Noble Airport on 6th October 2020 (Photo by Bruno Muthelet)
Another reminder of just how low the Gazelle's main rotors can droop with low or no inertia. Those outside the aircraft to be constantly vigilant during rotor engagement and braking.
One of our members informed me that XB sold this craft to someone who owns a company producing small helicopters in France. Will try and post the details of which small helicopters these are.
SA341B G-KEMH (WA1284) as seen at Shoreham Airport on 5th October 2020 (Photo by Andy Cook)
G-KEMH getting about a bit in recent days.
SA342L (cn.2057) as seen in Egypt (NFI)
Serial Confusion!
The lists which record Gazelle production in the one and two thousands are generally used by photographers, spotters and enthusiasts and which makes sense (in a manner of speaking) inasmuch as if you were standing outside the Aérospatiale factory with a pen and paper counting the airframes leaving the factory .. they would be in the one and two thousands and these lists have their place for the purposes for which they are intended, to provide a serialised production count of the Gazelle helicopter.Sav wrote: So, from the 'actual' production count, the numbers are in the one and two thousands, but for administrative purposes the French 342's make the jump into the three and four thousands.
Aérospatiale's official factory serial numbers make the leap into the three and four thousands through some agreement with ALAT and which seems to have begun with the introduction of the SA342M (again, specifically for ALAT). So, we should all accept these three and four thousand serials .. but, for spotters, enthusiasts, photographers (many of whom read this site) the one and two thousands list is a means of identifying the actual number of units built.
At least this is my understanding of things.
Check out the latest Gazelles for sale (3 x SA342M's) on the GazMart
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Dynali Helicopters
XB has graciously revealed the details of the company in question and which is Dynali Helicopters. Grazie XB!Sav wrote: One of our members informed me that XB sold this craft to someone who owns a company producing small helicopters in France. Will try and post the details of which small helicopters these are.
This is the first time for me to come across this helicopter, and which has surprised me. At first look I can say there appears to be some similarity with Italy's HeliSport. I also see that it is produced in Belgium and not France.
I would love to hear how the owner of N505HA felt when he flew the Gazelle for the first time, especially if he had only been flying smaller helicopters before.
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Originally posted by Rotorspot View Post
I am not upset at all, to be honest it does not matter to me what serial number it is. My only concern is for the information to be accurate. The UK CAA use these third party lists and it causes holdups when their data reads differently from the information on the actual aircraft.
I did have one spotter swear blind to me that the serial number was 1615 and that I had a fictitious data plate on the helicopter.
Also, if I had a ramp check somewhere in Europe and they looked at the data plate and said it was incorrect after reading third party data, I could get arrested and at the very least would have some hard questions to answer.
When entering Russia a few years ago I had a similar problem.
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I am in total agreement with you MD600 and it's good that the data plate and the paperwork both show the MSN as 3615, what I would like to get to the bottom of, is why either Aerospatiale or ALAT did the new sequence. If anyone has a contact at Airbus H/c maybe they would know ? I am in the process of upgating my database to reflect these findings, it's going to look strange with numeric gaps everywhere ! Maybe once it's finished I can send it to Airbus for any historic comments. -
Thanks for the explanation. I was not aware that the situation was like this. I will start updating my database.
BTW, I have been contacted by the Air Britain editor after he had received a message from Helipixman.
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Originally posted by md600driver View Post
Stefano has made a valid point and if there is something we can do to alleviate this then that would be good.
Elipix, once your new list is complete do you think you would be able to share it with Air Britain (and any others) along with an explanation as to how these different lists are causing difficulty for Gazelle owners who are being queried on the identification of their aircraft based on the discrepancy between the manufacturer's data and independently compiled lists?
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SA341G #1072 UR-ACCA at Kharkov, Ukraine in December 2007 (Photo: Robert Jentrelle)
Please if anyone able to shed some light on her present status. Last info I have said it went to France 2014.Comment
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