Shrieking Gazelles

[md600driver]

Gazelle C/n 1098

I have had a reply from an Air Britain member who has stated:-

Two military Gazelle helicopters had their data plates stamped incorrectly !
They are:-

XW860 real c/n 1100 plate stamped as 1096
XW861 real c/n 1102 plate stamped as 1098


He also mentions that many Lynx helicopters received wrongly stamped data plates and some were changed two or more times?

Hope this helps

Helipixman

Not sure about that. Whenever I have had an inspection of an aircraft for its first Certificate of Airworthiness (CofA), the authority inspector always checks the data plate, and if the data plate was wrong they wouldn’t issue the CofA.

If a data plate is incorrect, you can order one from Airbus as a purchasable item from their parts book.

[Helipixman]

Ah yes I assume you are talking CAA for your first inspections. These are both military machines, so who would inspect the data plate when they were delivered to the military ? It seems 1102 was built and given a data plate 1098 at the factory !

Even the CAA let the wrong 1098 get through the system (they must have inspected the data plate) when it became G-BZFJ and apparently decided to let it go or just assumed the plate was correct.

It was only when someone pointed it out to them, they realised that two Gazelles had the same number. Because G-BZFJ had been exported they didnt feel the need to change it. Another reason it might have slipped through was that on the paperwork one was recorded as 1098 and the other as WA1098

[md600driver]

Ah yes I assume you are talking CAA for your first inspections. These are both military machines, so who would inspect the data plate when they were delivered to the military ? It seems 1102 was built and given a data plate 1098 at the factory !

Even the CAA let the wrong 1098 get through the system (they must have inspected the data plate) when it became G-BZFJ and apparently decided to let it go or just assumed the plate was correct.

It was only when someone pointed it out to them, they realised that two Gazelles had the same number. Because G-BZFJ had been exported they didnt feel the need to change it. Another reason it might have slipped through was on the paperwork one was recorded as 1098 and the other as WA1098

Yes, but 1102 was sold as 1102, and when you register an ex-mil aircraft you have to provide the invoice from the military as part of the initial registration requirements.

[Helipixman]

From what I understand

1102 XW861 was wrongly stamped at the factory as 1098. So surely it was sold to the military as 1098. I don't suppose the military had any reason to query the construction number and it has had paperwork and data plate for 1098 all of its life. They would not have any reason to suspect there was another 1098 out there on a civilian machine. So when the military sold it they would have passed it on as 1098 because that's what the paperwork/Invoice/data plate showed and then to UR-ABBA.

We may never get to the end of this, only Westland know what really happened, I doubt they will admit there were two Gazelles with the same Construction number.

[Savoia]

Did you read Nosco's comment above:

The 'Yeovil dataplate' iillustrated, is also devoid of the Date of Manufacture and the factory quality control inspectors stamps, traditionally found on a aerospatiale/eurocopter/airbus helicopter 'pukka' dataplate.

http://www.aviafora.com/forums/forum...0916#post10916

I am wondering why this aircraft's data plate is seemingly non standard.

[Savoia]

Polizei Niedersachsen SA342J D-HOPL (cn.1095) NFI




SA341F F-MBOE (cn.1693) landing aboard the assault ship 'Ouragan' in November 1986 (Photo by Gilles Tariol)




'Harry' painting the 2019 Tiger Gaz

[Savoia]

SA341F2 as seen at King Khalid Military Base, Saudi Arabia in September 1990 after a rare night of desert rain (Photo by Gilles Tariol)




SA341G N2FW (cn.1363) as seen in California in June 2019




SA341D XZ935 (WA1742) + 2 as seen at MoD Lyneham on 20th February 2019 (Photo by Liam Daniels)


Mystery Gaz?


Unidentified Gazelle with no location details

Any guesses as to which bird this might be?

[md600driver]

Mystery Gaz! — Definitely an ex-UK military Gazelle, either RAF or Navy HT2 or 3, not Army or Marines.

Best guess is G-LEDR (sn.1081) shortly after being placed on the civil register and prior to having her seats recovering with leather.

[Savoia]

Grazie Stefano!

So how do you distinguish between the RAF and RN Gazelles and those of the Army and Marines?

[md600driver]

From what I understand

1102 XW861 was wrongly stamped at the factory as 1098. So surely it was sold to the military as 1098. I don't suppose the military had any reason to query the construction number and it has had paperwork and data plate for 1098 all of its life. They would not have any reason to suspect there was another 1098 out there on a civilian machine. So when the military sold it they would have passed it on as 1098 because that's what the paperwork/Invoice/data plate showed and then to UR-ABBA.

We may never get to the end of this, only Westland know what really happened, I doubt they will admit there were two Gazelles with the same Construction number.

But military records show it to be 1102 and when sold it would have been 1102.

Here is a photo of the original auction page from Phillips of Bond Street on 24 September for XW861. Two Gazelles were sold that day.

[Helipixman]

Cannot see on that page, where does it state the construction number ?

So if the military sold it as data plate 1102 who changed the plate to 1098 ?
The CAA registered it to European Marine Ltd as 1098. Why if it had paper work for 1102 and a data plate for 1098.

If, as you say the inspectors check this it should have been spotted. If it was sold with the data plate 1102 in the helicopter how could a new owner change it to something else. As the historian who checked this out told me, he found it was stamped at the factory as 1098.

Seems this is going to rumble on.

[md600driver]

Grazie Stefano!

So how do you distinguish between the RAF and RN Gazelles and those of the Army and Marines?

Navy and RAF Gazelles had two blade aerials underneath the battery bay, whereas some Army ones had a large twin vertical array fitted above the battery bay (see photos below).

There was of course some movement of Gazelles between the services, but these were mostly between the Army and Marines, both wearing camo schemes.

G-LEDR (or G-CTFS as she is known now) was originally bought by a friend of mine and was painted to replicate the colour 'Subaru Blue' which I had applied to my 341G HA-LFM, although it ended up being slightly lighter blue. LFM was in fact the first Gazelle to be painted that colour — many have done it since.

[Savoia]

Grazie Stefano! Much appreciated.

That blue you employed on LFM was very attractive, hence it became popular! Great stuff!

[Helipixman]

Data Plates....

Here are a couple of photos of more data plates for comparison, both Westland built machines and the plates differ on these as in what is stamped etc.

1299 ZK-HTB ex XX391 Shows as Type Mk.2 but no date stamp etc. (Possibly looks like a new plate)


1645 XZ327 only shows Gazelle. This one was an AH.1 (no reference to that) and has a date stamp 2.5.77. This machine first flew on 12.5.77 and was delivered to the military on 2.6.7

Helipixman

[Savoia]

I wonder why they didn't employ the numerical type designation, ie. 341 on the data plates?

Regarding 1102 specifically, I think the fact that you have correspondence from the CAA's head of aircraft registrations admitting that there is a mistake in their recording of this aircraft's construction number is probably as close as we are going to get for now, although having said that .. we do have among our members someone who worked at the Yeovil factory .. specifically on the Gazelle line, so perhaps further information will be forthcoming.

In the meantime, did you consider that this aircraft may be able to uniquely benefit from this 'confusion', inasmuch as this craft can probably move about Europe without the restrictions of an ex-mil bird, while at the same time being able to use replacement mil parts being that she was once registered as XW861.

For example, if EASA tried to place ex-mil requirements on this aircraft, the owner need only invite them to inspect her data plate (which specifically highlights that she is a 'Series G' ie. wholly civilian) and which the CAA's own documents corroborate. Basically, 1102 has 'dual citizenship' (military 'and' civilian) and which, as I say, could be a 'useful complication' for some!

[Zishelix]

Oh, looks like you were very productive here while I was absent! Well done, I'm sure these 1098 & 1102 ID investigation raised few eyebrows around

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Unti...elle/1019954/L

[noscoavia]

For comparison, a Marignane 341 dataplate can be seen in post # 2435 http://www.aviafora.com/forums/forum...=7104#post7104 This is the dataplate for G-SFTB and shows two factory QC stamps.

With what seems like inconsistent content being offered on the face of a Yeovil plate, has anyone got an image of a plate with WHL QC stamps? Those stamps would be unobtainable outside the factory.

As Steve previously stated, a dataplate 'blank' can be ordered up from the Parts IPC, but its content is only as accurate as the person stamping it, has at hand.

[Savoia]

SA341G N37UP (cn.1224) as seen at Aeroporto Pavullo Nel Frignano on 16th June 2019 (Fotos: Tombarelli Federico)







SA341F2 ZU-RNV (cn.1608) as seen in South Africa on 16th June 2019


SA341C ZU-HBH (WA1418) as seen at Middleburg Airport in 2017 (Photo by Jarryd Sinovich)




SA341F2 cn.1151 as seen in Latresne, France in May 2019 (Photo by Phil Adkin)




SA341F2 N2MF (cn.1448) as seen in Nevada in June 2019




SAF Gazelle over Serbia

1500ft rule .. what 1500ft rule???

[Zishelix]

Nice ones, thanks Sav!

[Savoia]

Mamma Mia .. do my eyes deceive me .. or is this 'really' Zishelix ???!!! I thought maybe you had gone on a round the world flight!

[Zishelix]

Not particularly although met some quite exotic characters while on the trip Nice to be back and see friends again!

[Savoia]

An Armée de terre Gazelle suffered a forced landing in Mali, West Africa on 14th June while providing support for Operation Barkhane in which forces from Mali, Niger and France have been cooperating.

The Gazelle's three crew members are reported to have suffered non-life-threatening injuries and were air lifted to Base Aérienne in Gao and then flown to France.

A jihadist group calling itself the 'Islamic State in the Great Sahara' is active in the region of Menaka in Mali and in surrounding areas of neighbouring Niger.

https://thedefensepost.com/2019/06/1...naka-barkhane/

https://www.tellerreport.com/news/20...JlvTLLSyH.html





SA341C G-ZZLE (WA1402) as seen at Duxford on 5th June 2019




SA342M's F-MGAP with F-MGEV at Phalsbourg-Bourscheid on 2nd July 2017




Gazelle in China, June 2019 NFI

[Zishelix]

Could be the one you noted
http://www.aviafora.com/forums/forum...=8582#post8582

[Rotorspot]

The end plates on the stabilizer look so wrong to me. Mounted incorrectly?

[xbdt]

yes these looks mounted incorrectly, he'll have to swap L to R and R to L.

[Helipixman]

SX-HDC

SA.341G Gazelles Srs.1
C/n: 1205

First photo I have seen of this machine !

Operated in Greece by Hellas Air Service and was based at a Helipad on the Chalkidiki-Thessaloniki motorway.

Crashed 20.2.01 at Lemenaria, Thasos after take off from a private site at Thessaloniki.


Photo by John Antoniades

[Savoia]

Ah .. Elipix — your penchant for sourcing unique heli shots shining strong as ever! What a wonderful photo and how lovely to see this truly unique bird; a civilian EMS Gazelle, and a Grecian one at that, just great!

[Rotorspot]

Apparently rebuilt after that crash, as the picture was taken on 28-Nov-2009.
See https://www.flickr.com/photos/27875200@N00/4141758270/

[Helipixman]

Picture taken dates can be misleading on flickr.... It depends on the person having the correct date set on their camera ?

[md600driver]

I think this Chinese Gazelle is ex N565F

Think you maybe correct there, I wondered what happened to her after she went to Hong Kong/China.

[Rotorspot]

Another Gazelle onto the UK Register

G-CLGO SA341C GAZELLE HT2, c/n 1750, ex XZ939;
registered 11-Jun-2019 to THE GAZELLE SQUADRON DISPLAY TEAM LTD.

Can someone help me with this query: certain databases (including mine) have this Gazelle as an 341D Gazelle HT3 model. As far as I am aware she was operated by the RAF and therefore an HT3. Which version is the correct one?

[Savoia]

Is this the second Gaz this month added to the Gaz Squad and does anyone know the latest tally of Gaz Squad aircraft?

I do question the decision to create multiple type identities based solely on the end-user, as these are effectively customer designations, but there we are, what's done is done.

Personally, I would have designated all the UK mil birds as WA341M's irrespective of which service they went to!

[Helipixman]

Helicopters currently registered to The Gazelle Squadron, its directors and related company Falcon should currently be:-

G-CBSF, G-CBSK, G-CDNS, G-CGJX, G-CGJZ, G-CLGO, G-FUKM, G-TSTR, G-ZZEL, G-ZZLE

G-RBIL has a registered address as Bourne Park so although owned by someone else, could be considered part of the fleet ?

Any additions welcome...

[Savoia]

Grazie mille Elipix!

[Zishelix]

G-CLGO SA341C GAZELLE HT2, c/n 1750, ex XZ939;

Wasn't c/n 1757 ex XZ939 (ended up in Ukraine as UR-MANN)? I have #1750 as G-CBBV.

I had same dilemma few years ago http://www.aviafora.com/forums/forum...=3638#post3638

[Rotorspot]

C/n 1750, XZ939, to G-CLGO
C/n 1757, XZ940, to G-CBBV, UR-MANN
Both confirmed by CAA data (for whatever that is worth).

[Helipixman]

I agree with Rotorspot, that's what my database records show

[Zishelix]

OK, thanks for confirmation! Info regarding 1750 & 1757 corrected.

[Savoia]

SA341B XX448 (WA1440) as seen at Le Luc Le Cannet Airport on 23rd June 2007

[Savoia]

New Gazelle for Togo


SA342M F-MMCS 4187 as seen at Valence-Chabeuil on 21st May 2019

This Gazelle is awaiting delivery to Togo.




SA341F2 ZU-RNV (cn.1608) as seen in South Africa on 20th June 2019


SA341F2 ZU-RRW (cn.1369) as seen in Maputo on 15th June 2019 (Photo by Jarryd Sinovich)

[Savoia]

SA342M 4178 as seen wearing a tricolor scheme in June 1990 (Photo by Christian Malcros)

[Zishelix]

Nice finding, Sav!

The specific machine was intended for the air show which should commemorate 25 years of presence of the combat helicopters in Pau. Sadly never presented to the public because the air show was cancelled due to crash of an SA.330 Puma few days before. Few pics remain and anger of mechanics who had to remove the painting in order to put it back into 'uniform' dress again!

[Savoia]

Grazie Zis!

[Savoia]

I think this Chinese Gazelle is ex N565F

Here are a couple more shots which may help you to identify whether she is 1182 as previously discussed.

The end plates on the stabilizer look so wrong to me. Mounted incorrectly?

Yes indeed. I wonder if the Gazelle stabiliser end plates are angled to offset torque, as this may have an interesting effect on the aircraft's handling.



Speaking of Gazelle end plates, it has been mentioned previously that they possess some sort of manufacturer's stamp? If so, this might have been a clue for our oriental friends, although French/English might seem as 'Chinese' to them! Also, does this stamp also include the aircraft construction number, as this might be another means of attempting to establish the identity of UR-ABBA?

[md600driver]

I have spoken to the ex owner in the UK and shown him a photo of the instrument panel and he confirms it is his old n565

[Savoia]

Bravo Stefano, much appreciated !!!

Hopefully at some point we shall be able to track down her new registration also.

[Zishelix]

G-ONNE at Duxford in February 17th, 2019 (Photo: David Whithworth)

[Savoia]

SA341B ZA766 (WA1808) as seen at Deptford Down Airfield in Wiltshire on 8th May 2019 (Photo by Sarah Ward)


SA341B ZB669 (WA1950) as seen at Slieve Donard Resort in Newcastle Northern Ireland on 23rd June 2019 (Photos by Dan Rose)

Seen attending Newcastle's 'Festival of Flight'. Surprisingly, these are the first shots of ZB669 in my database.

Also attending was this Irish Colibri:


EC120 EI-MIK as seen at Newcastle in County Down on 22nd June 2019




SA341D ZB625 (WA1905) with SA341C XZ939 (WA1750) as seen at Bourne Park on 19th June 2019 (Photo by Keith Heywood)


SA341C XZ939 (WA1750) as seen at Bourne Park on 19th June 2019 (Photo by Keith Heywood)


SA342J YU-HES (cn.1057) as seen at Duxford on 21st June 2019 (Photo by Fred Taylor)




SA341H HA-LFW (cn.096) as seen at Graz Airport in Austria on 7th June 2019 (Photo by Andreas Mueller)


Gazelles in Qatar


Qatari Gazelle QA09 as seen in June 2019





Air Graphic have apparently released a new 'Desert Storm' model kit:



https://www.72news.eu/2019/06/air-gr...zelle-ah1.html




SA341G G-UZEL (cn.1413) new digital image

SA341D XZ934 (WA1736) departing the Weston Air Festival on 23rd June 2019

[Savoia]

Qatari Gazelles to be Sold Off

Qatar has received its first batch of AH-64E Apache Guardian attack helicopters, deliveries of which are expected to be completed by the end of May 2020. A total of 24 AH-64E's have been ordered.

The Apache Guardians will allow the Qatari Armed Forces to replace its ageing SA342 Gazelle scout helicopters.

http://en.c4defence.com/Agenda/qatar...copters/7904/1




SA341H RA-05702 (cn.058) as seen in Russia in June 2019




New Gaz Squad additions SA341C XZ939 (WA1750) with SA341D ZB625 (WA1905) as seen at Bourne Park on 18th June 2019

SA342M F-MGAB 3476 at Base Aérienne Mont-de-Marsan during the NATO Tiger Meet in May 2019

[Savoia]

Stretched Gaz Flashback!



SA341G(S) N901B (cn.1410) as seen in Gmuden, Austria on 10th September 2016 (Photo by Thomas Rosskopf)

Flashback to Stefano's Austrian expedition.




SA341G(S) N340SM (cn.1509) as seen at Bedford School in April 2012

SA341G(S) YU-HVZ (cn.1295) start and depart from Deurne in the Netherlands on 17th September 2017

[Savoia]

SA342L1 12943 (cn.163) as seen during Exercise Adriatic Strike in Slovenia in June 2019 (Photo by Marcus Vallianos)

[Savoia]

SA341G ZS-HIY (cn.1068) as seen at Rand Airport in South Africa in 1974

[xbdt]

Strange, are you sure this is a 341G? It does not have the luggage door.

[Savoia]

I am not sure about anything with these Gazelles .. I blame Zishelix for 'roping' me into this whole Gaz topic but there we are!

From what I can see, this bird only ever served in a civilian role, but perhaps she was originally intended to be an 'F' model for l'armée de terre?

To make this even clearer, a few years later .. Heliquip (the Aérospatiale distributor for South Africa) received another Gaz in the same colours with the registration ZS-HYI.

[md600driver]

Strange, are you sure this is a 341G? It does not have the luggage door.

Another civilian 341G which didn’t have a baggage door was 1301.

[Savoia]

Ciao Stefano, so did you access the baggage area through the cabin, could the rear seats be easily folded or removed?

[Savoia]

SA341B G-HSDL (WA1227) as seen at Manchester Barton in June 2019 with a 'RatRanger' behind




SA341B ZB674 (WA1967) as seen at Welshpool Airport, date unknown, flying as 'Army Air 669' (Photo by Jamie Brownfield)




SA341F2 N544GZ (cn.1544) as seen in a hangar in California in June 2019

Gazelle over California beach, June 2019








RA-2520G as seen in Vladivostok in June 2019

[Savoia]

SA341G(S) YU-HEY (cn,1320) as seen at an undisclosed location in the UK on 30th June 2019 (Photo by Jo Kane)




SA341C G-ZZLE (WA1402) ex-XX436 as seen attending the Medway Armed Forces Day in Gillingham, Kent on 29th June 2019




SA341B XZ329 (WA1648) as seen at Blackbushe on 22nd June 2019 (Photo by Benjamin Ballande)




Gazelles in China in times past

[Savoia]

SA342M F-MAXS as seen at Le Luc–Le Cannet Airport on 23rd June 2007

Stefano/Xavier, just to clarify, the rear tie-down visible at the extreme right of this shot, is this attached to the hand-hold at the rear of the fenestron?

[Savoia]

Ha ha .. yes I guess so!

[md600driver]

When I received my 342 from the French military it came with a tie down kit, complete with metal stakes and a 4lb lump hammer to knock them in! There was also a big axe in a pouch in the front left, although I'm not sure what that’s for.

[xbdt]

Yes the front axe in the pouch is intended to be used to break the windscreen in case of the doors wont open anymore. I saw this on a 341 and another 342 also.

[Savoia]

Stefano wrote: When I received my 342 from the French military it came with a tie down kit, complete with metal stakes and a 4lb lump hammer to knock them in! There was also a big axe in a pouch in the front left, although I'm not sure what that’s for.

Ha ha, excellent!

XB wrote: Yes the front axe in the pouch is intended to be used to break the windscreen in case of the doors wont open anymore.

Do you think this was also with ditching in-mind?




SA342L 241 (cn. 1854) as seen Casement Baldonnel Aerodrome on 26th August 2004 (Photo by Frank Grealish)


SA342L 241 (cn.1854) as seen at Fairyhouse in August 1983 (Photo by Martin Kelly)

[Savoia]

SA341F2 ZU-RMD (cn.1523) as seen at Vereeniging Airport in South Africa on 3rd July 2019

[Savoia]

SA342MV F-MGAS and SA342M F-MGAE as seen aboard the FS Tonnerre on 28th June 2019 during exercise Semper Thunder 2019




Armée de Terre SA342 as seen firing a missile during Exercise Semper Thunder at Camp Lejeune in North Carolina on 29th June 2019

Exercise Semper Thunder is a bilateral training exercise conducted between the 26th US Marine Expeditionary Unit and Task Force Jeanne D' Arc. The aim of the exercises is to strengthen interoperability in preparation for coalition operations.

SA341H HA-LFL (cn.007) start and depart from Miskolc Airport in Hungary on 11th November 2017

Could this qualify as a 'standing start'?

Btw, if at some point in the future someone happens upon this video who is knowledgeable about turbines, could you kindly explain what causes the resonance which is audible at 32 secs. This turbine start resonance is more pronounced on the classic Artouste and which for me is one of the delightful quirks of the Lama.